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HARDCORE VS AIDES

11

Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:47 pm
Driver
393 Posts
I know some people like to run aides and some like hardcore and won't run aides. I was thinking to balance this out can we in the current series run 1 week with aides and the next week hardcore? And continue this back and forth through the season?


GMoran
Mon Dec 23, 2019 2:38 pm
Driver
442 Posts
I suppose we could.

ProCup was always intended to be our premier series with the best drivers being invited to drive in the series.  To me, allowing aids begins to water down the series.  But, if you think we will get more drivers with this change, I'd be up for seeing how we could implement something.

Let's see what king of chatter we get on the topic.


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:04 pm
39 Posts
As you all know, I have been running this sim/game since 1999.  And, with the exception of our Pro Cup series, have always used 1 aid...steering assistance. I know for a fact that there are others that, depending on the track, use some steering assistance from time to time.  I have always been of the mind that if using steering assistance (and if necessary other aids) makes a driver more stable and reduces the number of accidents and cautions they cause then it only makes the racing better for everyone. Making the transition to not using steering assistance in ProCup this past season after using it for 20 years was, for lack of a better word...challenging. I know it caused me to be slower, to cause cautions I probably would not have otherwise caused and be on the edge of out of control more times than I care to mention.  However, I knew that if I wanted to run in the series and ever ween myself off using it I just had to man up and put in extra hours practicing and adjusting my setups and in game controls. Now with that said, I think Gary does have a point. If implementing his suggestion will help us get more drivers in the series that would be a good thing.  However, with or without aids (steering assistance) I will support the series if asked to run in it again and if no aids remains the law of the land will continue to work at honing and improving the skill needed to not be an accident waiting to happen.
Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:28 pm
Driver
393 Posts
I  think it would be fair to all.


GMoran
Wed Dec 25, 2019 12:05 am
Driver
112 Posts
On and Off, This week yes, that week no...it  will be confusing. Just cut  off the requirment and let each driver race like he wants.


[email]nascarsix@gmail.com[/email]
Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:46 pm
388 Posts
Not a fan of Gary's idea. ProCup is meant to be the ultimate racers challenge, and all aids does is to cover up a deficiency of a driver or their setups.
When I get my arse handed to me, I want to at least know it was not because a computer beat me.

As Rick noted, it took him all season in ProCup to get comfortable without aids, and had to redo his setups. The reverse is now true if you allow aids.  With aids, you can run totally different setups to maximize its benefits. It isn't as simple as turning on steering assist and immediately going faster.And as anyone who has run the Fun Friday series, setups get so whacked out that there is no way an non aids driver can compete or even stay on the track. And as we have seen in other series here at AOR where aids are allowed, certain drivers flat out will dominate over the non aids car, to the point that as in last nights race, a car with its entire backend removed was faster than anyone other then the winner who, oh by the way, uses SA as well. All I could do was to wave goodbye to them as they went by, and I had a pretty stout car.

One other point is that I don't see how this will increase the field size. Those who use aids will be there one week, then not the next. If a driver wants to man up to hardcore as Rick did, then they can do so on a weekly basis.  We have but one series that is dedicated to the hard core racer, and I for one, hope it remains so.


Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
If you can't eat it or play with it, piss on it and walk way
Thu Jan 02, 2020 2:22 pm
Driver
51 Posts
My opinion is to keep ProCup 100% Hardcore. I'd even like for it to be forced cockpit, but I know that would push away some drivers.
I also believe that we should remove the invitational part of ProCup. If you cause 2 yellows, then you must retire. It could help the field size some by removing invitational only part. I know of one guy that thought about running ProCup, but wasn't able to because he had to be invited. He didn't have the time to run any other series to meet the requirements to be approved. Once ProCup/AOR is averaging 50+ drivers, then you can reactivate the invitational.
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:50 am
Driver
393 Posts
I was referring to the other series not the Pro Cup. And Larry is right someone who knows how to maximize the steering assist will flat out crush hardcore drivers. I only think the series that allow aids should switch back and forth between them.


GMoran
Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:35 am
Driver
442 Posts
— Gary_Moran wrote
I was referring to the other series not the Pro Cup..

Sorry, Gary.  I got everyone off on the wrong tangent.  I really thought you were referring to Pro Cup.


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Sat Jan 04, 2020 5:27 pm
39 Posts
"I was referring to the other series not the Pro Cup."  Not sure it would be good to do it in all series.  I think "hardcore" discourages new or inexperienced folks from participating. Just this past year we had a few new folks come to AOR (and I believe they had past experience) and even running in the series that allow aids they were, for the most part, not able to be very competitive.  I think that may be part of the reason they've stopped running or run very seldomly now. The days are long gone when it didn't matter if someone joined or left, raced or not. There used to be a ton of drivers out there looking for a league to race in and someone else would come along to replace them. We need to remember there are still other leagues out there that the shrunken number of NR2003 racers can run in (some with waiting lists) so if we want them to join and run with us instead of them we need to make AOR as much or more fun and as easy to be competitive in as possible if we want to continue to exist. I think having one hardcore series like Pro Cup is a a good way to satisfy those who are purists and don't like using aids (even if it might improve their performance) or those folks that do use them.  My final position on this topic is leave it as it is.
Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:56 pm
32 Posts
Well I have never used aid of any kind except the option to have an open view...Personally speaking I don't see the need to allow aids in Pro Cup...I personally asked Rick last year to run the series because he had the time the experience and ability with or without aids...that being said yes he had struggled at times made mistakes as we all do..but overall I think that by him doing so helped him in the long run...My opinion is leave it alone...if people want to run the series then they should by the rules that are in place and there are plenty of other series which are available with different rules..
Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:39 pm
Driver
393 Posts
Good input from everyone. I think we should open up the Pro Series to get more drivers this year.

I think "hardcore" discourages new or inexperienced folks from participating. This game was made in 2003 it is now 2020. If you have not learned to drive without aids in 17 years. ??????

I got beat up by guys like Jeff, Larry , Bill  and others when it was Magnum racing. But I never used aids. I worked harder to get as good as them. AIDS are just an excuse, to me. I am done pissing people off.


GMoran
Mon Jan 06, 2020 4:09 pm
39 Posts
"If you have not learned to drive without aids in 17 years. ??????"  Some of us are just S L O W learners I reckon HaHa Very Happy
Mon Jan 06, 2020 10:15 pm
Driver
442 Posts
— Gary_Moran wrote
I think we should open up the Pro Series to get more drivers this year.


And now you did make the topic refer to Pro Cup.......  Razz


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:32 am
32 Posts
leave the pro cup no aids open view and call it a day...
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