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HARDCORE VS AIDES

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Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:41 am
32 Posts
and open it up to whom? Virtually everyone here that races would qualify...guys like ray or crabby maybe they don't have time ...maybe they don't want to hear the bs...whatever the case is if they want to run they can ...I just personally don't think that a series called "ProCup" should relax rules ...everyone in this league is good enough to race within the rules that is there...
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:35 am
388 Posts
To my knowledge, only ProCup has aids restrictions.


Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
If you can't eat it or play with it, piss on it and walk way
Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:57 pm
Driver
442 Posts
Gary is always good with starting a topic that gets activity.  I look back at our forum posts and it seems that the posts Gary makes get lots of responses. Good job, Gary.  :D

So, since we're only a month away from the regular season starts, I figured I'd make a decision on Pro Cup.

Pro Cup will remain as it was. Aids will be set to HARDCORE:DRIVING AIDS ONLY

The Admin of each series has always had the support of the league and that remains the same as well.  If the Admin of a series chooses to run with or without aids, that's their prerogative.


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:44 pm
Driver
393 Posts
What I meant is open it up from the rules you must run other races. Just let drivers in and let owners hire them. You going NUTS in your old age Jeff?


GMoran
Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:20 pm
Driver
442 Posts
No doubt... Confused


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:44 pm
Driver
112 Posts
why is it so hard to make a post? make a new subject line?

I have Windows 7 pro, I need to upgrade to Windows 10.. any suggestions on this major upgrade?


[email]nascarsix@gmail.com[/email]
Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:06 pm
Driver
442 Posts
Brett,

Make sure you have a backup of everything.  And, if you can, clone you Win7 system to another drive just so you have a system you can boot off of if something goes horribly wrong.

I haven't done an upgrade from an OS that old, but I haven't had any serious issues with the systems I've upgraded.

I don't know how you are getting your copy of Win10, but if at all possible, I'd just do a clean install of Win10 then re-install your programs after the install rather than performing the upgrade.  If you're buying a new copy of Win10 then this should be the path you take.  And, if you do it this way, buy a new drive and install Win10 on that and keep your existing Win7 drive off to the side as your backup.


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:37 pm
Driver
112 Posts
Thanks , Have not thought of most of that.
When installing the game on the new Windows 10 OS, has there been any download concerns of Nascar 2003 when I re install the game? I think I have the Key Code, but aren,t there other Downloads I need also for the Game? I know I will have to pull over my Track files and Series Files from my external Hard Drive.
Wish there was a full list of what to do..lol


[email]nascarsix@gmail.com[/email]
Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:00 pm
Driver
442 Posts
— Brett_Carter wrote
When installing the game on the new Windows 10 OS, has there been any download concerns of Nascar 2003 when I re install the game? I think I have the Key Code, but aren,t there other Downloads I need also for the Game? I know I will have to pull over my Track files and Series Files from my external Hard Drive.

Grab your Player folder and keep that somewhere too.  That will have all your setups.
And, save the \Users\{computername}\AppData\Roaming\TS3Client folder.  You can restore that folder when you're done with the install and it will keep all you settings.

— Brett_Carter wrote
Wish there was a full list of what to do..lol

I wish there were too.  Maybe you could provide that when you get all done..... Laughing


Jeff
Site Owner/Developer
American Online Racing
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:28 pm
Driver
152 Posts
Congrats to Caleb on the HoBo championship.
Since HoBo seems to have full fields racing, maybe we should try what they are doing to attract drivers to AOR.
Do they run their series with or without aids?
Why would you want to limit drivers because of AIDS? Do you think it makes for better racing or do you think AIDS give an advantage.
I would venture to say that using AIDS does not make someone  better than someone driving HARDCORE.
I would also ask you to look at the guys who usually run up front. They are NOT the guys using aids.
As for as restricting view to COCKPIT only, I think that is silly. All you are doing is making it more difficult for a driver to see where the other cars are.
Many times I hear drivers who are using IN CAR VIEW applogize for causing wrecks because they did not know someone was there.
I really dont give a RATS ASS as to HARD CORE or NOT. I race for the FUN of it. When you guys make it to where it is not fun anymore I will move on to somewhere else.
You guys do what you want to with the PRO CUP SERIES But YOU WILL NOT tell me how to run the series that I am in control of.
If I cant run those series the way I want to then I will give them up and you can find someone else to take care of them


Thanks
Richard Hildebrandt
AKA Corvette-fan
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Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:47 pm
Driver
51 Posts
Thank you, Richard!

Hobo is very laid back with open and fixed setup series, fixed weather (always 70F Clear) and allows AIDS in every series. They also use the old school points mixed with the playoffs. I raced there on Tuesdays and that was the only series that I'm aware of that used open sets. I also believe having a decent social media presence helps Hobo with the driver count. Live broadcast races certainly help with the driver count too. I now that was one of perks for me racing over there.

I know this thread isn't about Pro Cup, but I believe over half of Hobo drivers would skip the series if they had Teams format like we do in Pro Cup. The team idea is nice and was fun at first, but does it really change anything? It's sometimes a pain to get on a team at the first of the year. Some owners create 2 teams so someone can race. The driver's earnings does nothing for that driver and everyone that typically works together always ends up working together every Pro Cup season. I'm not trying to bash anybody or anyone's ideas, I'm just giving my 2 cents. I want to see AOR grow and have the 30+ drivers every week and I'd love to be a part of that! I think Pro Cup may have gotten too complicated (teams, pit allowance, all the extra bonus/penalty points, etc) for it's own good. If adding drivers to Pro Cup means it not longer is a Hardcore series, I'll be ok with that.

A lot of what Richard said is true. Even at Hobo (which allows aids), most of the front runners are driving Hardcore. I believe restricting the view to cockpit would push drivers away. I know I mention I would like to see it, but I know it'll never happen unless you get a bunch of guys that take this game as a serious simulator. (Side note: I run Hardcore everywhere and run cockpit everywhere.) AOR needs to be laid back and focus on having fun.

I know I didn't race at AOR much last year, but please don't take my comments as me bashing anyone and/or AOR. I still truly care about AOR and want to see it succeed! I've spent a lot of time programming and a lot time with Jeff getting AOR's servers to be more advanced and automated. AOR (mainly Jeff's doing) has the best coding on their server that out does any NR2003 server EVER!!!

Caleb
Thu Feb 06, 2020 4:29 pm
Driver
152 Posts
Thanks for the comments Caleb, I think they are with good intentons and make some very good points.
I have had some AOR drvers tell me that they do not run Pro Cup,because of all the complexity and politics that seem to happen.
I too believe that the racing should be about FUN.


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Richard Hildebrandt
AKA Corvette-fan
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Fri Feb 07, 2020 4:14 am
Driver
2 Posts
Hello All,

If anyone is interested in my opinion from a new member perspective I'll be happy to provide a few thoughts:

As a newbie that stepped in last fall (albeit with plenty of game experience and league experience from the mid 2000s) I found the transition to be relatively easy.  I hadn't run leagues in 5-6 years but stayed up to date on the game.  I probably was 2-3 tenths off the top guys running no AIDS.  Just shaking off the rust and balancing the time in with my job was the biggest challenge.  With that being said, there are a lot of "administrative tasks" associated with the Pro Cup.  I feel kind of foolish sometimes because I struggle to get items with the website and team concept right from a "doing what you are supposed to without bothering the admin" standpoint. As someone that has a pretty hectic schedule with my job, I need to use my limited time to get my setups right during the week. However, when I got on the track last fall, I drove a very conservative pace and simply tried to prove myself as a clean racer that adds some depth to the series.  I feel that since I've earned your respect on the track, I can get more aggressive with my setups and try to go for wins.  As far as my opinion on what you run and don't run.......  When you run with drivers like Jeff, Alan, and Caleb, to name a few, you are only going to get better because they elevate the skill of the drivers around them.  The long runs and green flag runs I saw last fall, with a field of around 12-14 was impressive.  For me, the biggest challenge was the 2x wear and getting onto pit road.   A lot of my setups were not dialed in for the quicker fall off.   I'm not a good driver on restarts and cold tires and have always been too timid pitting. However, just because I'm not good at something, does not mean that I'm resigned to that fate for the rest of my time on the sim. My goal is to improve on restarts this year and continue to shake off the rust and improve.

You have a fantastic product here.  There is plenty to build off of. I've seen leagues in the past struggle because they are "overstructured".  I think a simple scoring system, and a laid back approach (agreeing to Caleb's) points will allow the league to flourish.  This league passed the sniff test for me because of what I call the "3-second rule".  I was running 4th at Kansas in my first race last fall, 3 seconds ahead of 5th, and 4 seconds behind 3rd.  That means that you actually get green flag racing.  To me, that is the secret sauce.  Sustained green flag runs.  If a couple new guys like myself know someone here or there, you can recruit members by word of mouth.  If I'm recruiting a new member, I'm selling the racing to them.  Sorry for the long post but that is my honest assessment of the product you have.
Fri Feb 07, 2020 1:45 pm
Driver
152 Posts
Thanks for your comments Daddy
Well said. This league more guys like you.


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Richard Hildebrandt
AKA Corvette-fan
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Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:44 am
388 Posts
Some history here and a few comments regarding the recent posts.
First a little history. ProCup was the rescue of the old XNR racing league that like many leagues, fell by the wayside due to upper level issue in the management group. Jeff and I agreed to come to its rescue, and hence ProCup was born.XNR, much like Hobo appears to be today, was the hardest league to get into. Rules under XNR were:
The were team owners who had to be approved by the league Admin's.
Team owners then were able to hire drivers from the waiting list.
Team owners were charged damage for incidents in the race.
Admins reviewed races for unwarranted incidents during the race.
Self spin rule was in effect.I cannot remember if it was one or two, then you had to park it.
Drivers who were running up the damage bill of the team owner suddenly found themselves out of a ride as they were replaced by someone else. This lead to drivers being more aware of cars around them during the race and finishing 3rd rather than chance wrecking, was a better option.
No aids were allowed. I sort of think that drivers POV was enabled, but that was it.
Drivers had to race under their own name, not an alias name.

These were the rules as best that I can remember them. And do many of these look familiar to ProCup? So when you are discussing issues regarding ProCup, please keep in mind its roots.

It has been said above that Hobo allows aids, and that it is not the aids drivers who are floursing over there. All I can think is that the drivers using aids can't be very good. I base this on the following data and observations:
1) Given you have a very good aids driver and a very good non aids driver, the advantage will always over the long run, go to the very good aids driver. To use data to back this up, lets look at the just completed 2019 Winter Truck series. A very good aids driver (Turcic) won the series over a very good non aids driver (Ebert). Both ran 10 races with Turcic winning 3 and Ebert 1. Turcic had 6 pole wins to Eberts 2. Advantage to the aids. Looking at the 2019 ProCup results, you see a different picture painted. While I cannot do a direct comparison like I could with the truck series as Turcic ran only 20 races to Eberts 35, there still is a clear pattern. Ebert had 17 wins to Turcics 0. Ebert had 16 pole wins to Turcics 2.
2) So why does the aids driver have the advantage? Simply put because you can to things with a setup using aids that you simply cannot do with a car without them. I would think its a safe bet that many of the drivers here who run in the Fun Friday races would do well at Hobo.

There was also mention of drivers POV being disabled. I have never heard or read of that in any thread, and every series on AOR allows open POV.

There was also comments on the ProCup team usage. First of all, remember its roots. Secondly, remember Jeff and I when I was involved more in the setup of the series, agreed to try and emulate NASCAR as much as possible. NASCAR runs teams. ProCup does. NASCAR limits a team to 4 cars. ProCup does. NASCAR teams tend to keep successful drivers. ProCup does. Yes we have people like myself who have 2 teams, but it is done to provide space for those who join the series late and may not have the funds to start their own team nor have the inclination to do so.

I would also like to jump into something else that I have heard bandied about, and that is the amount of "Rules" ProCup has. In an effort to emulate NASCAR, Jeff has had to massage things to make it work. Lucky Dog was never included in NASCAR 2003, nor was wave arounds. So rules had to be put into place to make it work for ProCup such as having to start at the back of the field (same as NASCAR). Also, I for one am tired of hearing about the tire rule. Remember I said ProCup was meant to mirror NASCAR as much as possible? Well guess what, NASCAR has a tire rule. It wasn't something that Jeff and I made up.

And last but not least, the comment regarding Hobo's site being more dynamic and live race broadcast of the event being available. Well, if someone will please tell me how I get the damn stutter out of the broadcast, I would be more then willing to broadcast the race, even given the fact that I would not be able to race in the event myself as I would have to run the cameras and jump from car to car. A complete race of following my sorry ass car would not be pleasant! And as far as the website design is concerned, and this is my feeling only, you have two different site structures. Hobo is more of the "race fan" format where AOR is more of a data format. I am sure that if Jeff wasn't so busy coding new things into AOR, that he could very easily put up a "eye candy" lead in page with a click here to continue to the real shit. I personally am not sure how much that it would help, but if someone felt strongly enough about it to mention it, it must have some merit.

So I will shut up now and go back to carrying Moe and my Chemo pump around and seeing what more mischief he and I can do to drive my wife nuts.


Handle every stressful situation like a dog.
If you can't eat it or play with it, piss on it and walk way
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